|
Post by George Gervin on Sept 1, 2010 0:47:42 GMT
Discuss all trades here (I think this is better then cluttering the actual trades happening, cause only the CM's and GM's that are doing trades should comment on actual trades).
|
|
|
Post by George Gervin on Sept 1, 2010 0:50:15 GMT
First trade LAL-TOR, risky trade, especially if Bosh declines PO, and even if he doesn't the Lakers still won't be able to re-sign Bosh with Kobe, Gasol, Artest, Odom, and Turk clogging up all the contract, so it would have to be a double switch type trade.
For TOR, it sucks to get Walton, but you get great value overall with Bynum, pick, and Shannon Brown.
|
|
|
Post by Blake Bowman on Sept 1, 2010 0:55:13 GMT
First trade LAL-TOR, risky trade, especially if Bosh declines PO My point exactly
|
|
|
Post by Willis Reed on Sept 1, 2010 1:03:51 GMT
I don't see Bosh wanting out being a problem. He showed this summer he will play with superstars. But LAL only gets him for 2 years max, unless he clears a ton of cap space. He won't have the bird rights.
|
|
|
Post by George Gervin on Sept 1, 2010 1:11:12 GMT
I don't see Bosh wanting out being a problem. He showed this summer he will play with superstars. But LAL only gets him for 2 years max, unless he clears a ton of cap space. He won't have the bird rights. I agree with the first point, he will probably pick up his PO, BUT the second part is the bigger issue, LAL literally has to blow up his roster just to keep Bosh, he would have to trade Odom, Hedo, Artest, OR move Gasol with one of the following 3 just to get cap space. I am banking on the fact that LAL will probably use Bosh as a trade bait just like he did with Bynum and get something more valuable in return.
|
|
Bill Walton
Rookie
LA Clippers[/color]
[ 1 - 2 ]
Posts: 27
|
Post by Bill Walton on Sept 1, 2010 3:37:12 GMT
Chris Bosh can walk across the hall of the Staples Center to the Clippers side after this season!
|
|
|
Post by sniper on Sept 1, 2010 5:07:54 GMT
Yes, just like what everyone else have said. Great trade for the Lakers but money problems are soon to come.
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Sept 1, 2010 20:45:09 GMT
I'd prefer this thread lived in the General Discussion. The Trade section doesn't really have a place for discussion like it did over at D5.
|
|
|
Post by George Gervin on Sept 3, 2010 1:22:39 GMT
I don't want to clog up the LAL-TOR trade thread, so I'll bring my points here instead.
Not trying to start a street fight or anything.
Because in video games they don't recognize real life factors, they just recognize data, that's why people would trade for Bosh, Bosh has a high rating, Bynum does not.
I am not a huge Shaq or LBJ fan but I once had Shaq on my team in Dynasty Five (Mavs), and I just signed LBJ to a big contract there.
So I wouldn't be oppose to having Bosh on the team in that regard either, or any player.
So you can say I might have been grossly exaggerating my points and bringing up too much real life factor in it (in real life there's no way I would trade Bynum for Bosh), but the Bynum bashing is ridiculous though, so you can say I OVER defended Bynum then I needed to.
Lastly Bynum is better then Bogut on defense, Bynum has the Shaquille O'Neal syndrome (if I don't get my touches on Offense, I'll half-ass it on defense). That's why his stats look obscured.
|
|
|
Post by Josh Barber on Sept 3, 2010 3:18:59 GMT
Anyone who thinks Bynum > Bogut has never watched a Bucks game. Bogut can dominate games and take complete control of them. Bynum rebounds, defends, and scores on garbage, alley oops, and an occasional drop hook. I am a fan of Bynum, and I respect his game enough to have him on my team in D5, but I think he is being severely overrated by a lot of people in this league. Let's get real. Andrew Bynum for Chris Bosh? Extremely lopsided. Want to know all the centers that I consider better than Andrew Bynum at this point and time? Dwight Howard Yao Ming Amare Stoudemire Chris Kaman Andrew Bogut Andris Biedrins Al Horford Nene Joakim Noah Al Jefferson This is not to say that Bynum will not be better than the majority of these players in the future. I can guarantee you that he will. But right now, let's just be real. He is a roleplayer. He isn't even the best roleplayer. He gets to play alongside another 7 footer who warrants the better opposing defender. He sits the bench in end-game situations. His offense is extremely shaky. He is the product of a system at this point. Now then, "Throw in" Hedo Turkoglu? This man is an allstar in his own right and has been the LEADER of a finals team. Bynum has been the 5th option of a finals team. Would I trade Turkoglu for Bynum straight up? Yes, but not because Bynum is the better player... he isn't. I would make the trade simply because big men are harder to come by than wings. Well, I'm done analyzing that trade now..
|
|
|
Post by Mitch Kupchak on Sept 4, 2010 0:19:44 GMT
Want to know all the centers that I consider better than Andrew Bynum at this point and time? Dwight Howard Yao Ming Amare Stoudemire Chris Kaman Andrew Bogut Andris Biedrins Al Horford Nene Joakim Noah Al Jefferson Dwight Howard > True like i said Yao Ming > was great...now: 100% injury prone - who would take the risk? Amare Stoudemire > PF who played pick & roll with steve nash and plays no D Chris Kaman > LOL u serious? his stats look great...he pretty much has no help in the frontcourt (put him next to gaso and odom and check his stats) Andrew Bogut > maybe - maybe slightly better than bynum now...Bynum has muh more trade worth though... Andris Biedrins > huh? he averaged 5 points and 7 boards? huh? Al Horford > pure PF...has to play a lot of C and i like him...averages weaker numbers (14 points and 9 boards in 35 minutes) still a very good player...about the same like andrew now, but as i said only a PF Nene > lol decent center averages 13 points and 7 boards in 34 minutes... Joakim Noah > skinny & skilled...more a PF though...only 10 points a game...good rebounder though... Al Jefferson > also a PF...went to utah for two draft picks...nobody made a better offer...was on the way to a star player...after he tore the ACL no more... what have we learned? -- there are not many Centers in the league...lots of PFs have to play out of position... -- the only real center is better than Bynum is Howard...and maybe Bogut right now...AND imo you forgot one > Brook Lopez-- if it comes to age, contract length and talent only Howard and the forgotten Brook Lopez is more worth on the list than Bynum. -- Noone would trade bynum one on one with any of the above players mentioned other than Dwight Howard (Bogut might be a possibilty)
|
|
|
Post by George Gervin on Sept 4, 2010 0:34:53 GMT
Now then, "Throw in" Hedo Turkoglu? This man is an allstar in his own right and has been the LEADER of a finals team. Bynum has been the 5th option of a finals team. Would I trade Turkoglu for Bynum straight up? Yes, but not because Bynum is the better player... he isn't. I would make the trade simply because big men are harder to come by than wings. Well, I'm done analyzing that trade now.. Alright I'll give you the EDGE on the other bigs being better then Bynum, but Turks that's a joke. Couple of things, if Bynum's a product of his system then so is Amare, Bosh and Turk product of theirs, cause 2 of them played in run and gun and the other one played in 3 pt shooting team (ORL). Turk better then Drew, ROTFLMFAO. He was the leader of HIS team that led them to the finals, he does the same exact thing that Odom does for LAL, both of them are the same neither players are all-stars, that are bi-polar and has one great game one day and then a poor game the next (MJ one day, Kwame the next). Here's Turk, Howard, and Lewis playoff numbers sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=862&year=2009Turks sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=469&year=2009Lewis sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=2384&year=2009Howard Overall playoff numbers Turks: 15.8 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 4.8 APG, 0.75 SPG, 0.2, BPG, FG .427, 3PT .386, , FT .817, TO 2.67 Shard: 19.0 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 2.9 APG, 1.04 SPG, 0.5 BPG, FG .448, 3PT .394, FT .784, TO 2.08 Howard: 20.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 1.9 APG, 0.87 SPG, 2.6 BPG , FG .601, 3PT 0, FT .636, TO 2.91 On top of that, Orlando put up the exact same record this past season without Turks and ran over CHA and ATL, before losing to a fully healthy BOS team and that was w/o Turks, Turks was also the reason why LBJ didn't get swept, because he played lousy defense against LBJ on that final play. Shard got heavily criticized this past season for not stepping up and making crunch time plays which lead to STEROID JOKES about him from a lot of people, I view it as same as Paul Pierce getting MVP in 08 when Ray Allen should of deserved it. Last but not least about Amare being better then Drew, about that. When Drew became a full time starter Nov. 2 (07/08) sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=271102021Dec. 25 (07/08) sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=271225013Nov. 20 (08/09) sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281120021Dec. 10 (08/09) sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281210013Nov. 12 (09/10) sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291112013Dec. 6 (09/10) sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291206013Dec. 25 (09/10) sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291228021Mar. 12 (09/10) sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300312021With the exception of the playoffs (where Bynum was hurt) and the last 2 regular season meetings in DEC 25 and MAR 12, Bynum always has a field day against Amare.
|
|
|
Post by Josh Barber on Sept 4, 2010 2:01:02 GMT
You both raise very good points about the players I mentioned. As Kupchak stated, there are not very many "good" centers in the game, and therefore it is hard to quantify them. I think the center position in itself is a bit overrated at this point in time. The most talented big men are slowing taking over the powerforward position, which is causing virtually all of the starting centers in the NBA to be defensive stoppers and rebounders instead of scoring threats. With that being said, I do not believe there is as much distinction between someone like Andrew Bynum and someone like Brendan Haywood as video game ratings like to make it seem. They both go out and perform the same task, just for different teams. Even 'dominant' centers like Dwight Howard and Andrew Bogut are better suited at defense than offense. Outside of an aging Shaquille O'Neal, the only true offensive centers at this point and time are Yao Ming and Amare Stoudemire, and as LAL stated, Amare is a power forward in his own right. As far as the Turkoglu comparison goes, I think 9 out of 10 NBA scouts will tell you that Turkoglu is better than Andrew Bynum. Turkoglu is a very versatile player who does more for his team than Andrew Bynum does for his team. Toronto is slowing becoming the place where players go to have their careers killed. It is simply not a place where players want to play, and I personally believe there is a lot of turmoil in the front office and coaching staff, especially if you look at how half the team was ready to walk out the door the minute this offseason started. With that being said, I think this last year does not accurately reflect Turkoglu's full talent, and that this year in Phoenix will certainly showcase his abilities much better. Just as a side note, I am really enjoying this thread so far... the arguments have been good and people are actually taking the time to research and prove points. I am simply a student of the game, a highly informed spectator if you will, and I thoroughly enjoy reading these counterarguments and responding. Keep up the good work
|
|
|
Post by Mitch Kupchak on Sept 4, 2010 10:06:05 GMT
what u mean with better? a swingman always looks better than a C, cuz he can shoot and dribble...so he might be the better basketballplayer from that standpoint of view, but a Center is always ranked higher in terms of tradeworth compared to other positions - cuz there are so few...and thats why 30 out of 30 GM scouts would prefer Bynum to Turk...
|
|
|
Post by Josh Barber on Sept 4, 2010 13:24:13 GMT
what u mean with better? a swingman always looks better than a C, cuz he can shoot and dribble...so he might be the better basketballplayer from that standpoint of view, but a Center is always ranked higher in terms of tradeworth compared to other positions - cuz there are so few...and thats why 30 out of 30 GM scouts would prefer Bynum to Turk... As I stated earlier, I mean better as in "does more for his team". As I stated in the actual trade thread, I would myself trade Turkoglu for Bynum because centers are harder to come by, but that does not make him the better player... just more trade value
|
|