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Post by Mitch Kupchak on Sept 5, 2010 20:54:38 GMT
Pau Gasol a Role Player??? in what world are you living???  He averaged almost 20 points, 11+ boards 2 blocks and 3,5 assists while shooting 54% from the field and 80% from the line... He is a back to back champions with the Lakers and World Champion with Spain! While Dirk and Bosh are not the best defenders in the world (and Amare doesnt play any D), gasol is now a great defender...besides that he has all offensive tooles and is a great ballhandler and passer too...just easily the best PF - read the report... if paul pierce (who avereged a career low 18 points) and amare who only profits from nash are "90-players"...Gasol is easily a 90+  |
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Post by sniper on Sept 5, 2010 23:54:24 GMT
Would think Rose would be rated higher then Tyreke since Rose has played another season then him and is more proven. But I don't really want to fight over ratings.
Will Noah see a slight increase?
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Post by Blake Bowman on Sept 6, 2010 0:39:07 GMT
I love PG but he isn't 93 MAYBE 90, IMO he can't be as good as Dirk. |
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Post by Chris Webber on Sept 6, 2010 0:43:58 GMT
Gasol shouldnt be 90. I say 88 or 89 max. He's good, one of the best PFs in the game, but his game isnt good enough to be in that echelon. 90 overall players are franchise players, Gasol (on the Lakers or on another team) isn't a "franchise player".
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James Winchester
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Post by James Winchester on Sept 6, 2010 1:44:05 GMT
You guys are all talking about Gasol.
What about the other Gasol?
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Post by Blake Bowman on Sept 6, 2010 2:20:46 GMT
Marc deserves an upgrade, he's one of the best, youngest Centers in the NBA and it's hard to get a good Center
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Post by George Gervin on Sept 6, 2010 15:05:49 GMT
Guys rating that are still too high new rating in parenthesis Mike Bibby 84 (80) Lamar Odom 87 (83-84 is fair, still a stud player) Kenyon Martin 83 (not a 83 type player anymore, 79-80) Rashard Lewis 88 (85) Andrei Kirilinko 81 (79, not 80 rated player anymore and he has injury problems too). Guys that are rated too low Jonas Jerekbo 67 (70-71) DeJuan Blair 67 (71) Javale McGee 68 (71) Darren Collison 72 (74-75, he's gonna be starter this year for IND, he show good he was last year and now with Granger, George, and Hibbert he can only become better). Andrea Bargnani 77 (80) Chris Kaman 77 (80) Steve Nash 85 (88-90, it's about time we change this man's rating, he is too good to have a 85 rating only, he just makes miracle happens (see PHX of last year)). sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=592 |
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Post by Mitch Kupchak on Sept 6, 2010 18:42:11 GMT
before you think about a overall rating change: the rating is always a result of ALL individual ratings!no doubt Steve Nash is amazing...but check his individual ratings...Nash is an amazing floor general...dribbling, shooting passing...great perimeter offense...BUT...he doenst play any D, doesnt rebound, doesnt block, doesnt have a post-up game...low strength,...thats why Nash has never a rating above about 85  So in the end its about each GM to create a good team with some good offensive players, defenders, allrounders, role players and so on... but allrounders always have higher ratings... Kevin Garnett is a great example...he always had a 96 when he was the big ticket, guz he could do everything well... Shaq never had a 90+rating...well no shooting, no dribbling, slow running, weak FTs....still he was amazing...so the message should be: OVERALL RATING ISNT EVERYTHING...its abut a GM who knows the player well so when u look at the players mentioned above some new suggestions:Mike Bibby 84 (80) - agreedLamar Odom 87 - best allrounder in the game...a PG in the body of a PF...always 10+ boards a game...check the individual ratings Kenyon Martin 83 - would make him 77/78 Rashard Lewis 88 (85) - agreed Andrei Kirilinko 81 - leave him there...blocking, stealing, some offens, good defense...not the same his used to be, but still a good allrounder!
Guys that are rated too low Jonas Jerekbo 67 (70-71) agreedDeJuan Blair 67 (71) agreed - high rebound individual ratingsJavale McGee 68 (71) agreedDarren Collison 72 (74-75, he's gonna be starter this year for IND, he show good he was last year and now with Granger, George, and Hibbert he can only become better). at least 75 if not 76!Andrea Bargnani 77 (80) not a "80" yet..78/79 weak rebounder - lots of potential though Chris Kaman 77 (80) okSteve Nash 85 see comments at the beginning @ian: What individual rating do u actually modify? |
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Post by George Gervin on Sept 6, 2010 18:59:02 GMT
I don't think Gasol is better than Dirk, Bosh, and Amare... he is good, but he isn't a superstar. Even when he was the best player on his team in Memphis, he only put up 20 ppg. Dirk, Bosh, and Amare all have put up 25+ ppg and are truly superstars, where as Gasol is more of a team player/roleplayer type of guy Dirk I agree with to me he's the best PF in the game, here's my top 3 PF 1. Dirk 2. Gasol 3. Duncan Bosh is not a superstar, if he was he wouldn't be joining Miami right now, even though Gasol went 0-12 in his 3 playoff appearances, Gasol still managed to win 50 games in a tough western conference, while Toronto made the playoffs twice, they had one great year over .500 with Bosh, and one year where they were exactly .500, Bosh has a total of 3 playoff wins, 1 against Orlando, and 2 against New Jersey, but NJ's one doesn't hold that much value as Nenad Krystic (their best post player) got hurt that year and missed the remainder of season (that was when Krystic was still rising as a NBA player and not injured). Amare's one is harder to debate, Amare has gone to the playoffs as a rookie W/O Nash (that was with Marbury and Marion still in their primes), BUT other then that Amare has basically benefited from Nash. At the same time PHX went the conference finals W/O Amare in 2005/2006. You look at both Gasol and Amare and even though both of them had huge impact on the team, Gasol's one can't be denied, he went to 3 finals and won 2 of them, Amare went as far as the Western Conference and lost to the Lakers once (it's 1-1 with Amare being starter, LAL lost in 07 but beat Amare in 09). |
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Post by Mitch Kupchak on Sept 6, 2010 20:30:15 GMT
i mostly agree and its nice to read finally someone respecting Gasol...and thats why i said IF Bosh, Amare (and also Pierce) are all "90-players" Gasol has to be 90+
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Post by Ian Noble on Sept 6, 2010 20:41:30 GMT
I modify a lot of ratings for each player.
For Garnett or Jermaine O'Neal, guys like that, I'll reduce their quickness/speed.
For Yao Ming or TMac I'll reduce hardiness (which controls injury frequency) as well as other physical attributes.
For Artest, Elton Brand, Josh Howard I reduced their scoring skill - not because they're any worse at scoring, just because they score less in real life (that's pretty much what the scoring skills are there for, along with primacy).
edit: But for none of these guys are those ratings I mentioned above the *only* ratings I change, I always ensure I edit a huge mixtures and scroll through each players full list of skills.
Deron Williams, for example, was surprisingly low rated at jumping and dunking, even though he's actually quite a good dunker sometimes. So I think I boosted him from 40 in each to 70 or something, to give you an example.
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Post by Ian Noble on Sept 6, 2010 20:48:26 GMT
I'm going to leave Lamar Odom where he is (87). I actually consider him one of the most under-rated players in the league, which is weird considering he's a Laker. He suffers from the syndrome of being able to do so many things that he's not universally recognised for any of them.
Pau Gasol I just cannot see as anything other than being slightly, fractionally worse than Bosh, Amare and Pierce. The difference between 89 and 90 really isn't that huge.
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Post by Ian Noble on Sept 6, 2010 20:50:15 GMT
When it comes to things like a 2 or 3 point boost for Jonas Jerebko from 67 to 70, I'm only going to make that kind of small change if I have to. On top of everything else, player rating changes take a long time.
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Post by Ian Noble on Sept 6, 2010 20:58:59 GMT
Increases
Stephen Curry 78 - 80
Marc Gasol 73 - 77
Decreases
Rashard Lewis 88 - 84
Mike Bibby 84 - 76
Michael Redd 85 - 81
Richard Jefferson 87 - 78
Kenyon Martin 83 - 79
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Post by Chris Webber on Sept 6, 2010 21:02:31 GMT
Its weird how all those players getting a decrease have such terrible contracts lol
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